>> what is exhibited by them in this arrangement. >> so these are the books in order, correct? >> yes. >> or uae booknotes walter? >> i was a regular booknotes viewer and when he announced on the air the program was coming to an end, i made a mental note the next day that i needed to look into the matter of whether we could obtain the collection in the archive from the organization. soon thereafter we made contact with mr. brian lamb. we presented three separate proposals from 2005 until 2010,
director of the center for crime prevention and control recounts the development and execution of his plan to curb inner-city violence in boston in the 1990s. boston's youth murders were cut by two years after installation of the program and its non-place in over 70 cities including chicago, washington d.c. and baltimore. this is about an hour. >> good evening, everyone. my name is rachel castanon behalf of harvard bookstore, please welcome you to this event with david kennedy, author of
the new book, "don't shoot: one man, a street fellowshipt, and the end of violence in inttercity america." two nights event is one many authors posting this fall. we still tickets left for friday evening's talk with jeffrey. he is an expert on economic and environmental policy and director of the year the institute and his boat is the price of civilization. he'll be speaking at 6:00 p.m. on the theater and friday evening. we also have tickets on sale for later in the fall for events at the news and tom brokaw as well as literary greats john gideon and number two atco among other events. for more information about our series, visit us online at harvard.com/events. the schedule is continually updated. i just want a doctor to talk this evening, we will have time for questions from the audience. at this evening spent is recorded, i would ask if you have a question you wait for the audience to come to you before
you ask it. looks like that over there. i also want to take a moment to turn off for science or cell phone or other electronic devices. it is now my pleasure to introduce david kennedy. mr. kennedy of criminal justice at john jay college as well as director the center for crime prevention and control. a self-taught criminologists helped engineer the boston marathon money to 90s by bringing together line for us that community leaders and drug traders to cut down the street violence in boston neighborhoods. his work has been adapted for cities across the country and is had numerous awards including two innovation in american government at the kennedy school at harvard. his new book, "don't shoot" as a number of his work developing and implementing a program by understanding and describing street violence on a theoretical level. a recent online review for the new public knows what's brilliant about chinese were the
street violence has its own special contras and patterns can be understood and manipulated. as i said after the talk will have time for questions about why a signing here at the front. as always, make you think anyone who purchased a book this evening by doing so you are supporting both the local independent bookstore is most this author series. do not join me in welcoming david kennedy. imac >> good evening. i don't think this is just one in a series of many to prevent, just for the record. i liked this book stuff. i really do. so i was telling rachel earlier that this is an authors element rather than a policy against
common. i haunted this bookstore through much of my youth and middle years. so i'll tell this story a little bit, but i am meant to be a racer and it was my ambition to be john mcphee basically. i wanted to be a literary nonfiction writer. and i started out in the early 80s, literally by going down to out-of-town news and buying a bunch of writers magazines and looking at how you become a freelance writer. writers magazines i like icicle magazines or cooking magazines. they tell you the same thing over and over and over again in every issue and then i have to figure some way to make it in today's different. what they say and writers magazines is right a query letter if he says yes, a written article. everything else is secondary. so i start doing that.
and while he was doing i got a job at the kennedy school writing teaching materials for the faculty there. and they did that until -- i did that for the next 15 years in various ways. i lived on dudley street in her case writing shop offices run dempster street when i got started and moved over to demean jfk building. i lived in north cambridge for years. i was probably in this bookstore two or three times a week the entire time mostly in autumn, which at least used to be the bookstore. so please don't wait for "don't shoot" to go downstairs. please get it upstairs. but it's really kind of personally fabulous to me standing here doing this. and i was also telling rachel that her first book was the end of last month cambridge. and i did it with john seabrook,
who actually is a new yorker writer and he did a really wonderful new yorker piece about the stuff about two and half years ago. john started the conversation by saying, so i was fascinated when i got a nice to discover that david meant to be a writer and now after about 30 years, he is finally written a literary nonfiction of the. writers will do anything to procrastinate, including having an entirely different substantive career, which is what i'm actually here to talk about. so, let's talk about what i've spent those 30 years of discussing about. we are a couple of weeks beyond the annual fall release of the fbi crime numbers. i had a little bet with myself when i wrote the editorial copy for that before the game numbers came out.
and i was exactly right as it turned out. so, news was good despite the recession and everything else the people thought were going to drive the numbers higher. once again in 2010 we had another decline in violent crime than the countries came down another four and a bit%. that is another hurdle in a string of very good national years. the violent crime rate is down to 1960s levels in many parts of the country. and everybody is very pleased. and that was the end of the discussion because all the news is good. numbers are down, continues to be down. everyone is very pleased. and that is both true and dramatic week, tragically wrong
because those for the national numbers and they are true. but they missed the other side of the picture. so my colleague, john closers who teaches at the rochester institute of technology likes to say nobody lives in the country. we live in neighborhoods. we live in our blocks, we live on our streets. in some of our neighborhoods and blocks street are burning. so the national homicide rate during the crack epidemic, which is at modern peak hit about 10 per 100,000. so this is how criminologists and the fbi annotate the status. 10 dead every year for 100,000 population. it is now down to about four per hundred thousand, which is part of everybody's national self-satisfaction on all of this. anyone know what the homicide rate for black men is in the united states clicks it is over
100 per hundred thousand today. and that is again the national rate because this status is not evenly distributed nationally, socially, geographically. and again a friend john closers has done the analysis in a string of rochester neighborhood called the crescent. so many of our cities and not just cities anymore have neighborhood. these are historically troubled, almost entirely african-american neighborhoods through the stuff i'm talking about doesn't go contemplate it has an almost always doesn't go on in this unique neighborhoods for this is a singular black american problem. and in this crescent of troubled neighborhoods, the homicide rate for 18 in the general black men is 520 per 100,000 every year,
which means a futurist at futurist at the last addition, it means more than one in 100 young men are killed almost entirely by gunshot every year. and my friend, lori neumeier is here your glory days were the kids from these neighborhoods who got caught up in the system in boston. she and i and everybody who works on these issues is beside ourselves with the fact that this goes on in plain sight, it is almost has just requires the least racist. i was in a working meeting was over black community partners not that long ago at john jay and we went off track and started talking about why nobody cares about this stuff. and the question was from a black man in the room. we are dying like flies out there. we know what to do when i move to that in a moment.
all of this is hiding in plain sight. why is this not a political issue? in an answer from another of her black friends in the room and i quote, we are back. we are supposed today. and i can't get anybody to get the magnitude of this incurs a device that finally came up with. so, we all just had a national moment of silence in honor of the dead at the ten-year anniversary of the al qaeda attacks on the united states. most of that focuses on new york and the world trade center attacks. so here's a fact for you. not that is that the annual death toll of young black men every single year is almost exactly the same as the body count for the world trade center attacks. nearly 3000 people a year.
and wc tee at attacks were some thing that the country prepped for for a year ahead of time and was headlined in every american newspaper. this other stuff to nothing. except in some quarters it does. and there are people like lori and myself and a bunch of others who live and breathe this, both inside and outside the effect did communities. and it came time to write "don't shoot" because in the last 15 years or so, there has been developed a way of thinking about and act soon on this problem that works. so the reviews on the book are starting to come out and not surprisingly, it is not a gentoo or. it says some very want an harsh things.
one of the thing that says as we know what needs to know to do something about this. i've been getting a rashness about this from people saying basically really? yes. so in my inbox is a message from the commanding officer in the mission district of the los angeles police department, which is in the san fernando valley and one of geographic root canal a los angeles which is most ingrained intergenerational bandit gangs. they began this were there not long ago. they had a signal moment just over a month ago. the message in my box for, for the first time in the history of the mission district in september, nobody got shot has never happened before. we are doing this in the worst
neighborhood in sacramento and intergenerational gang and drug area. they begin the work over a year ago and since they began the work, there has been, in this area, one nonfatal shooting. this status seems far too good to be true, but the fact is it isn't. some people find present no. people who follow the unintelligible academic literature on this know it. brown is also any doubt. this is a very nonacademic manifesto state we know the senate time to start acting like it. the first big moment in all of this came here in boston in 1996. i want to read from the book about that. so let me set the stage for you.
one of developments in this work has turned out to be getting down with extremely hard core offenders and talking to them. i will talk about why that makes sense in how you find them and all that sort of thing in a moment. but the fact is we sit down and we talked to them. the first time that was done anywhere in the country was made me a 96 and a gorgeous record has. so here is the scene. we are in the courthouse. there is no judge day. we just kind of taken the place over. on our side of the bar, with the judge of the witnesses and such would normally be our boston police officers, federal agents, supple county prosecutors, probation and parole is, sun city austin king outreach
workers the city had hired folks to try to avert the corners and calm the stuff done and get the street. on the other side of the bar facing us are about 30 of the most dangerous gang members we could find in the city of bath and. and we spent the next hour or so talking to them. a couple of framing fax. you're going to hear a couple of names. one is freddie curtis to. pretty cardoso was a common acclaimed basically the worst game defender in austin. and the boston cops stopped them in roxbury one morning he had just sold an automatic pistol to a juvenile. the kid had begun in most most of the ammunition. fred had 19 millimeters cartridge in his hand. the freddie didn't know was that the boston cops had been working
with the feds. freddie did not know that he had with the feds call it predicate criminal record that opened him to prosecution under what is called the criminal statute, the peasant armed career eligible defendant, he could be charmed to 15 year federal sentence. he especially didn't know under federal law, cartridges is a firearm. and that would probably have been a misdemeanor state defendants turned into a 15 year federal sentence in prison in upstate new york. refits to this day, and at the 1996. he is still locked up on this. you will hear freddie's name. you will hear tracy lifted name. tracy was the head of peking
team. you will hear the name of the young and freakishly brilliant and dedicated federal prosecutor named ted heineken was part of our core team when he was sitting over here. so this is our side talking to their side. here's how it is going to be in boston from now on the group said. and again till summer shoot guns or terraces neighborhood come in discrete steps in. we'll focus on everyone in the game. we will restaurateurs and shut markets down. with their point, colin probation and parole. nobody is going to smoke a joint entry in public and have any fun. we'll talk to judges and make sure they know what is going on. we'll talk to your parents. it's a twiki get this attention you're this group, no violence, no harm, without is not a deal.
they promised or somebody else i can get you for dealing drugs. you take that chance. we go where the violence is. most of the attitude was gone. they were leaning forward, focus, paying attention and taking it in. even though still fronting don't care you listening you could tell. then they turned it around. tracy lifted by design sat in the audience, not a cop. you know you're all set up in something you can't control. we know it's dangerous out there and will help any way we can. if you need protection from enemies. if you want a job, for my mainstream and, if you are back in the school, tell us. here is my phone number. retire to black kids dying from a black kids killing each other he said. inmates escape. we know you are hurting, but nobody has a right to pick up a gun and shoot somebody else, terrorized the neighborhood where they live. we'll help you anyway we can, that the violence has to stop. if you don't hear what is being said here today, it is on your
head. take what we are offering. i've been to over 100 funerals and i'm not going to anymore. the violence stops now. and when the law enforcement team turned it around, using a trick would work out carefully ahead of time. you know what happens when someone kills a cop he said. they don't stop at the shooter. they go after everybody involved. we never back off, we never stop. that's over going to do if you guys hurt somebody. that's over going to do if somebody hurt you. her beauty was like urging a cop. it is all off-limits now. it overt. today we gave them copies of the posters. we gave them strict phone numbers and send them home in boston were quiet. industry workers in the game officers and the streets were asking about meeting all of the city. ted heineken explain the freddie
curtis to prosecution. frankfurt is the same as everywhere. the king had pages and the safeties turned out to be very dirty. they just showed on the tuesday criminal histories much side-by-side. gross tried their boyfriends and make them check with their probation officers. golden st. stayed calm. state workers moved in with a summer job program. games also started to heat up as intelligence reach the working group we sent passengers on the street workers are cops who knew the crews involved to tell them we're watching you. it goes no further. stop. our team won and talk to the gang. no more trouble. when attacked again in the street. no more trouble. tracy reported back amazed after one such warning. they believe, he said, there is nothing happening. revelation. the games are rational. they listened, learned and responded. they changed. which they were and they did.
and which it turns out they are and they do all over the country. so this was 1996. this is what was really behind what came to be called the boston miracle. it's been fun to be able to sit down until my young story on this. there is the line in the book that says i always hated that. it wasn't a miracle. it was a lot of work. and it was, but it were. and then it worked in minneapolis on the network and stock in. and i was working in chicago. we begin this work in the most dangerous neighborhood in chicago about a year ago and not neighborhood is no longer the most dangerous neighborhood in chicago. two of these meetings in the associated work in west garfield park is down 40% at this point.
and over and over. it doesn't impossible and that's been one of the main impediments to getting the workout and getting people to take it seriously. the idea you could say, gang members and drug dealers and talk to them and you get these down enough that was just not credible. and the first merchant in 1996. nobody expected the streets of boston to switch off come which is basically what i did. the court nature of this problem and some of its basic material facet. it actually turns out not to be credible at all. so here is the short version of
what this is about and why this stuff works. the boston cops with habitat and a bunch of us became involved taught us the first and most important fact here, which is that in the hottest neighborhood , heard the community is doing this stuff. we didn't believe them because of stories we've been told about cultures of violence and community dynamics and gun availability and the diffusion of violent out of crack markets and into the general population and all the stuff people were talking about the time. the generation of super predators of iraq led to believe. everything said they were wrong and it turned out they were right. so it turned out that in boston, 61 crews, gangs, drug sites, that kind of thing come with
under 4% of the city and contained over 25% of all reported violent crime in this city of boston again, just massive hot spots, massively hotspots. so no matter where you go in the country those turn out to be true and that is just descriptive, that isn't unlimited or all the rest. but it turns out that with those facts travel some very, very powerful and in many ways profoundly uncomfortable dynamics. so one is that when those drug areas get a massive amount of all enforcement attention which looks to them on the receiving end completely opaque and random so they can't tell what's coming and they get away with almost
everything. colleagues of mine have done the prison risk calculation for selling cocaine which is if you stand on the street and sell a unit of cocaine you run a warm and 15,000 chance of a prison sentence. they get arrested over and over again which is what people in our world see. in their world they get away with almost everything they do and when they don't they don't know about it until it is too late. if we train our dogs this way they would have house and be living on the street which is why we don't train our dogs this way. so, we hurt them extraordinarily, but the hurt doesn't do neither them or us any good, and it turns out that they are not being irrational, we are being irrational and if we sit down with them and say we know we can't get you for everything but we have to get the next crew in the city to kill somebody we can do that and we are credible about that. you have just the entire city
down because once you have the conversation nobody wants to be the first group, strange way of doing deterrence but very effective. but we are still punishing them, we are still threatening them so the second thing that is most important here is that they are terrifying. and an enormous amount of what they do because we are not protecting them and if they are doing it immediately irrational things that are of course to ee constructive to defeat could destructive. we ran the numbers on the gangs in washington. the homicide risk 400,000, timber hundred thousand, 520 per 100,000. the homicide risk every year when 1600 per 100,000. everybody got shot. everybody knew people who had been killed. you sort of had a one in seven chance of getting killed if he were on the streets for nine
years. and we were not fixing it for them. it turns out to turn the streets for them many of them have a giant sigh of relief and back off because the idea that people like locking up their door and standing in one in seven chance of getting killed is a blood libel. it's not true. then it turns out that you can have a moral conversation. sweeting fear sociopaths. we think they don't care. none of that is right. they are not just poor misunderstood kids. they can be doing some tremendously all of things. are they reachable? yes. and they won't listen to us because we have no standing and the cops have no standing and so the question is who has standing. and the answer is to be found. it is the surviving mothers of the murdered, it is the right kind of ministers, the elders on the block, the older, wiser,
original gangsters who discovered the emperor has no clothes but based on all kind of street credibility. and the st code is not just about drugs, most of the violence isn't about business. this is about respect and disrespect. if i am dealing with you now we have about a vendetta. the st code that was driven by ideas, and ideas are something that you can challenge. so you have not lived until you have seen one of these original gangsters stand up in front of a room full of these guys and say i loved having my family on the street and i really believed it. i really did, that we had each other's backs which is why when the fed came calling i actually kept my mouth shut while my friends rushed and walked and i
am finishing a 17 federal bid. that is how much fug life i have on the street. let me ask you, gentlemen, the last time you were locked up who came to see you in prison and who pays your mother's rent, who bought a baby formula for your kids coming and how long did it take one of your voice to sleep with your girlfriend and in one of these meetings this kid stuck his hand and said three days, and it was like cousin. everybody knows this is hollow but nobody ever says eight. semidey dak here is knottings you work with these kids and you know this is right. and it turns out that saying this stuff is very, very powerful. we know that there is nothing more colorful than community standards. so we lead in these neighborhoods with the cops. the cops are with the academics called agents of the formal social control. that's the cops and corrections
and judges. everything we know about the world says in a formal social control is far more important and that's my conscience and what my friends think and what my mom thinks and what my girlfriend and prospective girlfriends think and what my community standards are. try telling this to a bunch of cops. you find something that works with copps. when you're growing up who is really afraid of the police? this is really interesting to read a bunch of narcotics cops you get a few more. so not a lot. show of hands, please, when you were growing up who was afraid of your mother? everybody was afraid of their mother. i'm still afraid of my mother. this is everything you need to know about informal social control. the mothers trump the fed 99 times all of 100, and especially
mom today trumps the fed may be in five years. so, and it turns out the community hates living like this and you get into any of these neighborhoods and the story is everybody's composite. the are all living off of drug money. no they are not. they hate this stuff. and at this point, we should have solved the problem. not many people are doing it. they don't even like it. the are reachable with the the right kind of law enforcement and with the engagement and they will listen to their community. their community wants them to stop, and still it's all burning out there. so what's that about? and this is the last point i will make because it is the biggest one and that is that it is going on because the communities hate us more than they age what's going on. these are communities that are most of them historic plea very
damaged african-american communities. until 1968, the law was as they say now a deliberate racial conspiracy to do them an edge. once the civil rights changes came, their neighborhoods didn't get better. the economy fell out from under them. we ramp up drug enforcement and game enforcement. mass incarceration in this country has reached the point that if you are born a black man today in the united states you stand on a one in three chance of going to prison. the company's neighborhoods go back to these neighborhoods, their neighborhoods in which all of the men can have criminal records. almost literally they can't make money, nobody wants to marry them. they won't want to marry anybody else. they can't pass background checks or get bonded to be a barber literally. so, we are destroying these neighborhoods in the name of saving them. we police them and aggressive ways. everybody gets stopped and
pulled over. the fourth amendment is tissue paper in these neighborhoods. everybody gets their pockets turnout and the community sees it especially in the very real context of the history of being black in america. looks at the cops and looks at the rest of us supporting all of this and not caring about their dead and said this is not just happening because it is an accident. that's what they want. anybody who watched the campaign, months of controversy about the jeremiah screech, the goddamn america screech, this is what he was talking about, the larger section of the sermon from which the comes goes something like they bring drugs into the country they give them to our kids, past the three strikes law, put everybody back in prison and ask us to stand up and saying god bless america
know, god damn america. that is what he was talking about the conviction on the part of america we're doing this on purpose. and when people believe that they will not stand up shoulder to shoulder with the cops and tell them put their guns down. they will not snitch, they will not cooperate. they will fly on the street and not tell you who shot them which is actually what goes on out there. so the most important piece of the work has come to be brokering a process between the authorities and the community in which the cops have to leave on this. the cops will go to the neighborhood and say we get eight. it's not working. we are jacking up all of your young men. we understand the unintended consequences of what we are doing. we want to do something different. we are especially cognizant of how what we has done has fit in with our toxic racial history.
we will stop this, but we need you to do something to that. we need you to say in these controlled and safeway's to the 5% of your young men who were driving this that you need them to stop it because right now they don't get that and so they think you think it's okay. we are having what we are calling these reconciliation agreement all over the country, and for whatever reason, which i do not understand there is the good will on the part of these battered communities to say they will take another shot at this with you and they do and the cops see them acting against the hype and the racialist transformation that takes place is astounding. but while you are doing that we can stop shooting.
it turns out we can stop the drug markets, we can stop jacking up all of the young men and stop arresting one in three black men. we don't have to do this anymore. and when we do that we can finally turn to the deeper issues in these communities because they need more than not to get killed. they need a lot more of helping an uplift. but you can't do that when people are afraid to go outside. you can't do it. and we have the tools we need. we do not need more money, we do not need the law, we don't need more cops or programs. we need to take what we've got, refocus it in these proven ways and just stopped. [applause] so i think the way we are going to do this is to speak into the
microphone. who would like to do that? >> who was the boston merkel or the boston hard work and but since then there has been a rise of crime again and on the "boston globe" there is about the insight happening between patches and how they were trying to work it out. and you hear a lot of reasons for why this might happen again and i would like to hear what you're take on it, what is the truth of it and what's going to have been moving forward? >> there has been aandahl the volumes of the extent of what happened in boston. nearly all of which partakes in a consensual fiction which is a fancy word for a lie.
so here's what happened in boston. they stopped doing the work. it is just that simple yet everything else that has been talked about is the and fleeting among the ministers, the shift in focus to the homeland security funding changes, none of it was actually a relevant to what happened. what happened was his department took its eye off of thinking about and acting on this in operation cease-fire framework, and over the next couple of years as they did that, the body count started to climb. the streets started to burn again and in these very positive feedback ways that this problem generates and it's back to the work that is stored. and that went through the to success of police commissioners, neither of whom would say to the
rank-and-file we are going to fix this. they let these politics play of inside of the department while the bodies stacked up. ed davis, the current commissioner has fixed that so he came in and had worked with my colleague, anthony, who was part of the original core of the boston team. anthony had worked with inlet and lowell. they had shut down the problem and using this and it came in and put his foot down and said no more of this nonsense. and he's actually building this way of operating more organically into the department than ever before. there are a couple of problems. one is that just like with your own kids and you're own dogs if you tell them they are going to do something and then you don't do it it's hard to get their attention again and it's better not to do this at all fan to do it and fly to the streets. the streets are used to getting light to and they don't like it
and they don't respect it and they don't respect us. so it's harder than the first time to get their attention and get their respect. and the second thing is that boston remains a very fractured city. it's tragic because this stuff was born here. boston showed that you could do it. there was a moment of real cooperation and it is sent back to that seem less happy state. and there is a lorain partly through the book as i saw this kind of agency politics and political politics destroy these efforts in cities that i began to see the basic pattern and it still holds true and that is we know how to control the bad guys. the bad guys are not a problem. i have yet to figure out how to control the good guys.
>> i work for the public defender's office and see the inequities that exist and how this affects the dynamics you're talking about. for example, the reform that hasn't been done, the minimum, lack of money for basic kinds of things. they get me out of boston. i am not so sure i agree. could you speak to that? i see that real problem. >> let's be careful about what i said. i didn't say we don't need more resources and more attention to this problem. of what i said is we don't need anything else to create fundamental public safety in these communities and that's true. we have the knowledge and the operating models that we need to stop on the site to shut the job market's down and create this
breathing space in the neighborhoods. does that fix everything? not even close. it creates some conditions where we can do the deeper and more important work and the reason that i'm so pointed out that is that our usual logic on this -- there are two ways people think about this and kind of depending on your character and disposition your geelong to one or the other. so if you kind of have a soul that believes in individual accountability and consequences, then you become a competent prosecutor and it becomes about people making bad decisions and your mechanism is the criminal-justice system and it's not working, and that means we need to fix the criminal justice system. good luck with that. if we wait for us to fix the current system to stop the killing and we will never get there. that's a fact.
if you have this a sold its along to sympathy and help and kind of an insight into deeper community conditions then you become a route calls are and try to go to work to fix the community. and that says if we can do something about education and health care and support families and bring all the programs we need to address the needs of the extraordinarily damage individuals than i know the crime will go away. good luck with that. because if we work to fix these communities that are as we speak paralyzed with fear and trauma then we are not going to get their easy. those are way of thinking about the issue that has been historically almost completely ineffective. the good news is we don't have to operate that way. we can work in these very
precise and different ways. we can fundamentally change these community dynamics and then the drug markets will stop sucking the kids in. they won't be doing the things that are getting them arrested now and things are different. is that everything? not even close but we can do and my view is since that is true we have a moral obligation to do it. >> curious support if any have been implementing an engaging schools and teachers because that's sort of what i think if other authority figures in addition to the parents. and adults who see the kids on a regular basis. and you know, people -- kids tend to get involved when they are still sort of school age, so
i was just wondering what your thoughts on that would be. >> our experience has been kids don't want to play outside of the walls and it is extremely frustrating. schools like to pretend that this isn't happening. they like to think that what goes on between the four walls has no connection to the outside. they do not recognize what is almost always true which is when they are gaining and violence issues in the school they are really community issues being played out in side of the schools. our experience nationally has been you can't get them to come to the table. you can't get them to pay attention or to share information. we have real story is of the fights that start and school. the security guys inside chase the fighters out into the street and get stabbed in the street and the school's response is
that happened on the street it's got nothing to do with us. it's really bad. there are not a lot of exceptions to them and again, as with this last discussion, the good news is you don't have to change that in order to be successful. you can work with the people who want to work with you and you will be okay. >> i'm interested in how you got to be a case study writer to a self-taught criminologist. >> good question. what happened was i was working out of the dempster street down here. i fell in love with -- fell in with a bunch of faculty. so there are the schools, professional school. it's not a political science department.
it's for people who are going to work in government and public policy. and therefore like a lot of business schools they do a lot of teaching by the case method and there is a little shop of a full-time case writers coming and i got this wonderful job doing that except nobody reads your stuff. it's kind of like working at the new yorker you get lots of time to work and great access and you call somebody and say i'm at harvard and i would like to interview you and they say yes. what is that? is a training ground for what i really wanted to do. and they are sort of serial academics lots is what they are. you are completely fascinated by what ever you are doing at the time and then leave it behind without a second thought and go do something else. and that is how i was trying to learn to be a good writer. and i got tagged by a group of faculty at the school who were
beginning a big project on reinventing the policing. to me it was just like any other assignment and as a part of that work, i spent the next ten years going to cities around the country there during the break through police work and because this was the made 80's on a lot of what they were doing is focused on emerging truck market problem because that is the worst thing anybody was dealing with and so i found myself going all over the country blocking the craft markets. i always have to say in a professional capacity. anybody that sees i defy you not to be changed by it. it is so unbelievable the awful and it's just drew me in and partly through that process, and this was the beginning of the
boston project, the policing work that i was not part of promoting wasn't reaching the problem. it wasn't working. and i got really, really frustrated and the boston project where i met head and a lot of the other people we've been talking about was my attempt to stop studying and to try to come up to something we could do without this stuff so that is what happened. >> what was the response was the reaction by the community members? as well as prosecutors in such periods to the community folks play a number of crucial roles. some of them are literally confined to these meetings or we call them the forums as we have in boston, which are as it turns
out extraordinarily effective and powerful moments. again, all disproportionately of what you think you ought to be able to get out of something like that. so in those meetings, community members frame the norms of the community. they say we don't want this. we are for you but we are against a couple things that you are doing. people you care about and who care about you are devastated by the violence. here's what it means to us if you get killed. i've seen 40 of the scariest dies in a big american city to the committee literally reduced to tears listening to the mother of a murdered a gang member explained to them what having him by did to hit surviving family. and this is the moment often when they start thinking they are not sociopaths they are listening to her and they are weeping in public.
the challenge the st code. this idea about respect and disrespect and devin data i'm going to be done by 21 to nothing i do now matters and all that stuff that drives the street culture. the simple being there in concert with all of these law enforcement agencies with a service providers and everybody talking with one voice is itself a transfer of moment. it's something that they have never seen before and it's actually something that never happened before. it is different. and then outside of the call, there is a way to keep those messages fresh so this really is like talking to your own kid you don't do it just wants three they can provide what we might
think of as direct services, so there is mentoring, there's a lot of faith based program and the in the four most of that goes on in any community where the community tries to help its young and it's vulnerable. the community often get asked to do a love of work that i think is fundamentally unreasonable. i have never seen an organized community. healthy communities don't come home from work and have dinner and have everybody go out to the big community meetings to talk of the issue of the community and how they're going to work on them together. they do their family life and the b and go to bed. that is what normal people do. it's only these communities that are already are most distressed communities where people aren't working and can't get work and have all kinds of problems and community problems. it's all of them that we demand
at the end of the day they get together and solve their own problems. people get paid to do this work and they are not doing it. it's the rest of us that need to step up and then there are these important strategic ways that the members of the community can and to fit in. let's take two more. >> you talk about your experience walking through the garden as kind of your moment that song again for you. have you tried to impart that moment on other people to recruit them into helping with this? research for lack of a better term? >> that's a really interesting question. so the nickerson gardens was the most dangerous public housing project in 1985 when i started this work.
it's right on the edge of compton, yet in that area was real -- as best we can tell it was ground zero for the american crack epidemic. and i will confess i have not had a great deal of success getting people to voluntarily go under or around. it's actually not nearly as dangerous as people think it is. one of the things you realize after a while was that they don't care about you. you are not a threat. you don't have much to offer. the worst thing that could happen is you might get robbed or catch a stray bullet or something like that that kind of stuff is actually rear. they hurt each other. they are worried they are concerned about their angry at each other. the rest of us don't matter. so you can actually get away with it pretty easily especially once you kind of get your feet under you. people don't want to do it coming in again, sort of as these are a recurring theme.
you don't really need new people to care about this. there are lots of people who care about this, professionally and just because it's what they care about. with those people need is a way of doing the work that works for them because what they're doing right now doesn't work, and there is more than enough in terms of people and resources to pull this off. once folks understand this way in committing this is a good thing. i get asked all the time how do you get folks to care about did black people and my answer is you are not going to. it's wrong. it's outrageous, but so far it's true. so we better figure out a way to do this or we don't have to convert to everybody. and we don't have to convert everybody. >> sorry to have gotten here late i was at the city council meeting and it went on longer than i had hoped.
i came in of late and i heard a piece of what you said that was interesting to me. i happen to live in public housing here in cambridge, and it wasn't a dream come true for me it was because of a mortgage foreclosure, scrambling for an affordable place to live and expensive housing community. i happen to have been elected the president of the council and some of what he said made a lot of sense to me. what interests me is the programs they bring a round social programs wrapped up in a police package. i have this feeling why does it have to be. why can't people in the public housing here or anywhere this is a luxury situation compared to what you were just talking about, but why does it have to come in the police rubber? can't the social programs is a lot of rich men and the work force development and offered to
people who as what they are and to the police have the police, and develop relationships as who they are? >> you have asked an exquisitely complicated question and i'm going to try to answer it in a slightly complicated but still quick way to get so everybody, myself fervently included would like to be able to do this without laying hands on anybody. we should regard not just as incarceration as a national shame which it is what we ought to regard any single times mehdi gets arrested and what does it feel your. as a material fact nobody anywhere has been able to create
safety in these neighborhoods reliably without the involvement of the law enforcement. you can find occasional success stories and they are magnificent but they are very situational the specific and you take what's been done in those successful places, to get someplace else that looks pretty much the same and they don't work. you have to get extraordinarily lucky to turn the corner and we need to base this stuff on more than lightning strikes. the other point is that it's actually -- if it is done right is better to do it with all enforcement's close involvement than not and i emphasize if it's done right what happens most of the time as the cops are still doing the same thing they've been doing. everybody else on the side of you graft on a little bit of help. that's the package and with
remarkable is i was prepared for the communities to hate the cops. i was not prepared for the communities to hate the social service providers which many of them do. the social service providers are distant and arrogant. they don't produce, they don't deliver, they all get paid and go home at the end of the day and they are not doing anybody any good and communities that have been dealing with this for decades or furious about that. when you want is for this new partnership to change the behavior of the cops come to change the behavior of the social service providers and to model for the community that we were doing before and the we we were thinking before is not what we were doing and thinking now. and again if everything is done right, it's better for the social services to be offered with a narcotics cop standing
there and the narcotics cop saying i want you to succeed. i don't want to have to arrest you. i don't want to kick in your mom store. i am a part of this because i respect you and i think you will make good choices and that is what we want. and if you make us i'm going to enforce civil law but please don't make us. it is a whole different engagement. >> one more. all of this seems like common sense to me because i do this work as well and i think it's common sense to anyone else who does the work. but there are so many different organizations in and around boston doing the work that sometimes i feel like they are not working. together the you're working more against each other. >> sometimes you feel like that?
>> okay. all the time. my question is how do we get all of our organizations on the same page and doing the same work at the same time so that we can all actually really be making a difference? >> it is common sense. it is so common sense and i called one of my girlfriends after we sort of figured of the boston stuff, she was in california and i said we've had this breakthrough we are going to sit them down and talk to them and we are going to tell them the first group to kill somebody is going to get all of their retention and offer them help and it's amazing. and there was a dead silence on the other and of the phone and judy said what have they been doing? we should be ashamed of ourselves, we really should. and we are all pulling together. it isn't common sense to everybody, and i've come to believe that this prescription that says we have to get everybody together before is a
disaster we've to organize the black churches and get all the agencies on the same page we have to get all the social service agencies working. you're not going to do it. it's not going to happen. you find the folks who get it and work with them and that's enough as it turns out and a good city what happens is that when that becomes so evident and the architecture is their people start finding their place and it gets stronger and stronger and stronger. if you wait to change everybody's mind first you wheat and that is the end of a duty to it. >> so it doesn't dry out the way that it did in boston. you build it into the thinking and the working of the city. you have the city put its foot down and have management, and you have people whose job is to keep this going and build it into the agency systems and into
the boston police department which they have done. it's common sense management stuff. and when people are willing it isn't that hard to. the was the issue and we will wrap up here. thank you very much. [applause] >> i just want to tell you a little bit about how the book came to be and then i'm going to read a chapter from the book. in 2009, september of 2009 a book that i get a written about my own a father and his perceptions cannot the backstage
planning but a woman approached me and said i can't believe you're here i can't believe your story and introduced herself as the fiancee of andrew madoff. of course my jaw dropped a year after the scandal and it was completely not mind blowing and i'd been throwing it like for the deals and i can to the family over the course of two years and like so many people following the story i of course got that andrew was most likely involved he and his brother had known all about his father's broad i was convinced ruth had to have known and was only curiosity that brought me into the story. i was a journalist and i wanted to get to the truth of the story like every heather journal that is all there and most of the people in the public and so when i was ready to read the book and sat down with them and was taken into the heart of their story i was absolutely astonished to find that nothing i thought was
true. i'm going to read from the concession itself, and then we will go. the confession. by 6:50 a.m. andrew and mark were once again perched in the conference room behind the trading floor. they shot each other looks to be medically breaking the silence to offer a new theory. one thing the new, something was terribly wrong. why 8:00 a.m. peter still hadn't arrived. mark shook his head. let's wait at our desk. they've taken of some 15 million in the withdrawal and the brokerage account in the prior three weeks. he asked to move the money in the wachovia bank account so he could use it to cover the redemptions. she did the bidding on questioningly. something that the media claim is approved embezzlement but in the family moved millions of dollars around all the time being but an apartment, making large transfers and multimillion-dollar donations to the film from organizations.
had she questioned the detective, andrew said, she would have parked at her and that would have been the end of the conversation. it wasn't until 9:20 a.m. that ander spotted peter making his way across the floor. peter is his brother. he signaled and the hurried into the conference room. as ander took his seat he felt the back of his neck hot with anticipation. he stood by the door. i talked to your father. it's bad. he wants to talk to you himself, he said. his stomach dropped. she knew that his uncle tended to put a positive spin on things. the brothers push their chairs back and followed the on will want to the trading floor. the collins were shouting orders at their desks and the administrative offices and the secretary a large conference room the what seemed to take forever. when they arrived at the executive office they found him sitting behind the desk leaning back in his chair staring at a television set mounted on the ceiling. he didn't greet them or
acknowledge their arrival. andro and peter took the chairs facing verney mark set on the couch to the left of the desk. for a few minutes they sat in silence. i don't know where to start, he finally began. his voice caught in his throat and tears started to look in his eyes. andrew felt a river rice to his chest and glanced at mark studying him intensely. let's not do this at the desk, he suggested. let's move to the table in the corner. they gathered around a small conference table at the far end of the room where they offered a shade of more privacy. again, bernie started to talk and couldn't continue. dumbfounded, he watched his father struggle for words. i can't do this, he finally said, andrew looked at his father feeling as though he had entered the world of the surreal. what could possibly be so bad that he couldn't even discuss it at the office? why don't we go to your apartment, he suggested. are we all going up there, he asked. he cleared his throat. no, you stay here and run the
show while we go to the apartment. he nodded and left the office. the closet was outside his office to read as they struggled into their gear he said to his secretary eleanor help me bring the car around. where are you going, the market is open. mind your own business, he snapped. immediately silencing eleanor who stared at her computer. andrew, mark and verney rode the elevator down in silence then waited in the back lobby of the building watching the rain streak across the doors. there was no small pox. and tried to blend in surroundings wishing that he could be teleport it to his parents' apartment so he could get whatever was going to happen over with. the anticipation was unbearable. the call again they rode in silence. he was sandwiched between his sons misty on a handshake and struggling to hold it together as though he had already received bad news and was trying to cope with it.
and retired at the window of the early christmas shoppers in a dead zone. they dropped them off on 64th street in front of the entrance to the penthouse apartment. the three rode to the 11th floor entrance and removed their shoes in the full year obeying the shoes of will. they leave their coats across the bannister taking care not to jerkwater on to the floor. rouson greeted them at the door with her face grim, she, too had no idea why her husband rushed home in the middle of the day to talk to his family, but like her son she suspected that the news was bad. somehow connected to it may have on wall street. bernie called her from the office and said i have something to tell you i can't tell you on the phone. i'm coming home with the boys. she got off the phone shaking and had waited for them in the kitchen. together the family entered the fitting room. a room that andrew never liked with dark green walls, khaki carpeting, dark leather and a desk. he sat by himself on a large sofa.
and rutka the alterman and marked the chair. they faced one another sitting at a considerable distance apart. i don't know where to start, he began again. he started to sob. the firm is insolvent, broke. >> how is it possible, i don't understand. of the money is gone. it's over. i don't understand, she repeated. how can that be? we are having an okay year. is this about the redemption? then he said something more terrible than they could have imagined. it's been a big lie. it's a giant ponzi scheme and it's been going on for years and there's been redemptions and i can't keep it going any more. i can't do it. he steered his father, his mind a jumble of disconnected thoughts and phrases. he was trying to piece together what his father was saying that the sentences could be evaporating. he was frustrated as they continued to disappear. rootlet a cigarette, her hand shook. but as a ponzi scheme? it means the asset management business was a fake, he said. i've been longing to you for ar